Don, Mangalore

vedaasthuthi, udupi

I asked Nabeel the same question 3 times but he has not answered, nor will he answer even if I asked him 300 times. This is because he does not have the answer even to the most simple questions. You can go blue in the face with all the reasoning in the world and talk all night, but people like M/s Nabeel and associates can’t see past their noses, because theirs is a closed mind and on the contrary they will try to wriggle out by asking counter questions or accusing us of something that was not said, or something that is totally irrelevant to the subject matter.

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vedaasthuthi, udupi

Dear Don, Mangalore
True brother!!
So i asked here that if every one is proud to call them indian then what is the problem to have one law in this democratic country.
I think most of them are thinking that the law implemented will be the people following the religion in majority, but in reality no people from the majority are forcing that their laws to be implemented and followed by all.
Rather to have uniform civil code and followed by all!!
I believe and hope 'TIME' will sure make them or any others with closed mind set to realize and think on reality.
Peace to all .
Dhanyavad

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Nabeel, doha/udupi

Dear, vedaasthuthi/ udupi, you borrow mischievous propaganda from the enemies of Islam and then utter this whole non-sense without doing due diligence of their own.The term taqiyya does not exist in Sunni muslims.Indian Muslims are at least as human as any other religious people. All, whatever their religion or faith, are first human beings created in the same manner by Almighty. No person on the basis of his colour, creed, nationality or any other such thing can be superior to any other person. The differences we see among the people are for the sake of identification only. The person who is dearer to Almighty God is the one whose character is good. This is what Islam teaches. How can all the Muslims together think of doing any injustice to anybody or approve any injustice?. Indian Muslims, no doubt, felt that the divorce of Shah Bano in her old age was unfortunate as divorce, according to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was “permissible only as a last resort” and that “kingdom of God trembles when it is pronounced”. In the holy Quran and traditions of the Prophet there are many guide-lines for this undesirable act. There are also no two opinions about the “triple divorce” on one sitting being a practice of the days of ignorance (ayyamul jahiliyya).

The holy Quran has given in clear terms the method and a system for honourable separation of the couple if unfortunately it becomes inevitable.There is the dire necessity of giving every religious community a feeling of “at home” in our country, which is possible only by following the well chalked out philosophy of unity in diversity. Any attempt for “uniformity” in laws relating to personal affairs of different religious communities can be rightly considered as an attempt of interference in their personal laws and denial of the fundamental rights guaranteed in the Constitution.What is more important is national unity and integrity, and not necessarily the uniformity. Let the Indian garden be more beautiful with its colourful flowers of different attractive shades. Actually Indian strength is in its composite culture. That is why the great founding fathers of our Constitution have drafted it in a manner agreeable to all. If any changes are necessary in any personal law, they should come from within that community in accordance with its traditional and religious ethos.

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vedaasthuthi, udupi

Dear Nabeel, doha/udupi
No need to get so offensive dude!
May i know On what basis you claim that i had borrowed mischievous propaganda from the enemies of Islam!!??
Most of them including myself have gone through these baseless allegations when people start to get offended when questioned!
I am shocked that you have not asked any proofs by asking verses/ayaths( when presented saying it as out of context) or the source etc etc.
Those days are out now and people are well aware of how to use internet search options to clear their queries regarding biased propaganda with the help of authentic sources and judge by their conscience.
So in my previous comment mentioned that “Leave aside Sharia” and every citizen of this country should see the ground reality without any bias ,limiting religious stuff to home!!
I agree with what ever you have mentioned on unity in diversity and we have to work together for the welfare of humanity so that peace and happiness prevails in all beings.
good day
Thank you

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Don, Mangalore

Nabeel udupi/Doha

I'm repeating the question for the third time please answer, you'll just don't hit the disagree button, instead please explain.

Q. 1. Based on Sharia law when a woman is raped, does she have prove it by bringing it 4 male witnesses or not?
Q.2 If she cannot produce the witnesses then what happens to her?

Please tell us, we don't want to know what else happened in 629 AD and later, please talk about the reality of laws per Sharia in today's world.

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vedaasthuthi, udupi

Dear Don,manglore
You cannot expect any answer for ur question as you know it very well!!
Thanks for posting the question and most of the rules in sharia are indefensible n which cannot be followed!
Thank you

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Ahmed, Mlore

Islam closes the door to the criminal who wants to commit this crime. Western studies have shown that most rapists are already criminals who commit their crimes under the influence of alcohol and drugs, and they take advantage of the fact that their victims are walking alone in isolated places, or staying in the house alone.

The laws of Islam came to protect women's honour and modesty. Islam forbids women to wear clothes that are not modest and to travel without a mahram . Islam encourages young men and women to marry early, and many other rulings which close the door to rape. Hence it comes as no surprise when we hear or read that most of these crimes occur in permissive societies which are looked up as examples of civilization and refinement! In America – for example – International Amnesty stated in a 2004 report entitled “Stop Violence Against Women” that every 90 seconds a woman was raped during that year.

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help.

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vedaasthuthi, udupi

Dear Ahmed, Mlore
I think you did not get Mr .Don question or purposefully don't want to answer it directly ,
I will make it simple to you ,If victim couldn't able to produce 4 male witnesses then, what is the alternate proof she can provide to the court( does in sharia rule medical proofs be placed ) or she has got any other rights according to sharia.
As you said islam closes the door for the criminal who commits crime and its similar to any of the other religions where it doesn't not allow any criminal to use his religion to back up his crime!
One thing brother people raping has got severe mental problem due to which they don't see age(as children and even older people become a victim of this cruel mentality) , or dressing sense or any other thing!
Its the behavior and mentality of the people affects the most!!
Have a good day
Ramadan kareem
Thank you.

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rajesh, mangalore

Dear Nabeel Udupi. what i wanted to know is the punishment for the rapist when the rape victim is unable to bring four male witness under shahriah laws. your point that the laws were made to protect a woman from false accusation of adultery leading to harsh punishment to the woman does not address the question of rape.Rape is a punishment to the victim. you seem to be suggest that punishment for adultery is grave and for that reason as measure to prove beyond doubt that adultery was committed there should be four male witness.in a situation where the girl does not get enough witness, she would not dare to complain against rape as the status of victim may eventually be come that of a perpetrator of crime, that is adultery. Mr suleiman Beary, you seem to suggest that shariah laws are the need of the hour. i want to ask you,now that there are more non Muslims that Muslims in this world. does that sharia laws treat the rape of non muslim women and muslim women in the same breath or are there different punishment on the basis of religion of the victim and the perpetrator of rape?.

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Nabeel, udupi/doha

Islam (Submission) treats both men and women equally and a woman victim of rape cannot be blamed for the crime that happened to her. There is no where in the Quran any indication to blame the rape victim instead of blaming the rapist. When and if this happens, it does not represent Islam but represents cultural understanding and man made laws, not God's commands in the Quran.
[5:5] …….. You shall maintain CHASTITY, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.

[24:30] Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their CHASTITY. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do.

[24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their CHASTITY.

About the believers God teaches us

[23:5] And they maintain their CHASTITY.

And in Sura (Chapter) 70, again

[70:29] They keep their CHASTITY.

Examples from Early Islamic History

During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, a rapist was punished based on only the testimony of the victim. Wa'il ibn Hujr reported that a womam publicly identified a man who had raped her. The people caught the man and brought him to the Prophet Muhammad. He told the woman to go, that she was not to be blamed, and ordered that the man be put to death.
In another case, a woman brought her infant to the mosque and publicly spoke about the rape that had resulted in her pregnancy. When confronted, the accused admitted the crime to the Caliph Umar who ordered his punishment. The woman was not punished.

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vedaasthuthi, udupi

Dear Nabeel, udupi/doha
Are you cherry picking the verses from the holy book!!?
Leave "sharia' aside brother ,
You have missed few more verses where you can find the said equality among the gender, it is clearly mentioned in the holy book that women are half deficient to men, women rights on sharing property, if wife do not wish to have romance with her husband then the entire night angels will start cursing her for not obeying her husband etc. If you want me to post the verses like how you cherry picked/sorry did not come through the other verses on woman or rape with your reference then kindly name any of the great authors(like bin khalid, sahi hadith ,bhukhari etc etc ) will make you realize brother.
And you may have come through this word 'TAKKIYA' and i don’t need here to mention for what i have used this word.
I think you are not aware of the verdict given by Indian judiciary system in sha banu issue,if possible Kindly go through the great case of 'Sha Banu'
Dear brother nabeel ,
As per the supreme court verdict it is simple and easy to understand that no other parallel court can be run in this democratic country to make their decision valid(to even KHAP/kangaroo court etc etc).
Its simple that"Every one should abide and follow the rule of land"

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Shankar, Mangalore

Those who mong polygamy, Divorce over phone and who do not wish to compensate ex-wife after divorce have come strongly in this forum opposing the supreme court!!

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Don, Mangalore

Nabeel udupi/Doha "This onus is meant to protect women from the evils of men who would destroy a woman’s reputation and name out of spite"

All what you said does not make an ounce of sense.

So when someone is accusing a woman of rape, then he/she will also have his 4 Muslim Male witness ready (or 8 female witness as two females are equal to one male witness) or the one accusing gets flogged ? Can you tell me when was the last time that 4 people witnessed the raped, and had nothing to do with it. The only time I know it happened was in Hindi movies, when the villain tries to rape the heroin, and all the audience watched.

Rape happens every day, in every part of the world and you and many millions of your ilk have simply refuse to see basic common sense. So here is the real question - When a Muslim woman gets raped by someone known to her what does she do, can she ever go to the authorities and say that X raped me and produce her witnesses. Because per Islamic law when she can’t produce 4 Adult Male Muslim witness, leave alone justice, she will be accused of have sex outside marriage and she will be the one who is going to get punished? Till date can you tell me how many times did a female rape victim produce her 4 Adult Male Muslim witnesses which you say is divine law.

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Nabeel, udupi/doha

Sharia Law severely punishes rape and there is no concept of four witnesses to prove that one has been raped. Those who believe and say that law requires four witnesses to prove rape are misguided, lacing in their understanding and comprehension of islam and forget that this very law is a form of oppression. if anyone equivocate the Quranic injunction of bringing four witnesses for adultery with the conditions of rape then inflicting further pain on women.Islamic legal scholars interpret rape as a crime in the category of hiraba (highway robbery, terrorism or promoting terror)Hiraba does not require four witnesses to prove the offence circumstantial evidence, medical data and expert testimony form the evidence used to prosecute such crimes.

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rajesh, mangalore

Dear Nabeel Udupi,going by your reply to Don, you seem to suggest that there is no requirement of four witness to punish any person for rape when enough circumstantial evidence is there to prove rape.is that point coming from logic or is it coming from the Shariah laws?. if it comes from the law, can you quote verbatim the sections or suras. This will remove misconception if any?

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Suleman Beary, Udupi

@ Rosario Fernandes...
If the shariah law is misinterpreted and wrongly given, then one should blame the person who passed this wrong fatwah and not the shariah law.

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Suleman Beary, Udupi

@ Rajesh...
The punishment for the rape is specified by Shariah can be applied in present situation?. Investigation during those days were limited to witness only, but modern day techniques can prove this crime professionally.
It is the punishment which is stipulated by shariah is important even though it looks harsh for the modern day, but definitely will bring the change in criminals mind who will think ten times prior to committing such crimes.

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Don, Mangalore

Those (mainly men) asking for Sharia choose and want only those parts that suit them i.e marrying 4 wives, subjugating woman, divorcing them with ease and not paying spouse/child support like the infamous Shah Bano Case over 3 decades, etc, etc.

But when according to that same Sharia if a Muslim robs then his hand should be cut, if he drinks then he gets public lashes, Capital punishment for a long list of offenses, etc. etc. then he wants democratic laws.

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Said, Kannangar/dubai

Just want to inform every one is here...
1. Sharia law is Devine law.. Even it is man made but according to Quran.

2.people here are celebrating the move of SC and as Muslims we also welcome the move.. But, why non Muslims are welcoming.. Is any non Muslim affected or are they affected because of sharia law? I think it's just frustration which they had against Muslims..

3. SC can issue the what is the right or wrong for country but it cannot change people attitude or charector .. We as Muslims cannot obey the our sharia law.. But sharia law never go against country's law..
4. We never implemented proper sharia law..so SC decision won't affect much.."

5. For one thing is sure.. If sharia law is implemented in India will shine without no politics, Bad governance, no bribe, no rape..
6. At last "ache din aane wale hain"

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tomcat, Mangalore/Oman

Said, Kannangar/dubaiTuesday, you are hundred percent wrong.

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nazeer husain, jeddah saudi arabia

the words of allah always protects every human beings with utmost care about truth and justice. Criminals,communal,fascist more protected rather than innocent public under any man made ruling system .At least to control crime criminal code of shariah rule is a best option

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shammi, karnataka

A muslim has a choice ,if he wants to approach shariah court,then its his wish,India or china cannot give verdict on it.Indian constitution says every individual has a right to express,live.
Shariah law is ,was n will always be divine law.That's why we find it more medieval.Coz its d from Adam n eve's era(pbut).
We muslims are not forcing other religious community to follow it.At the same time ,if i want to approach SC or HC,then no religious maulvis can stop me. Afterall its personal choice.Anyways SC should stop in engaging n wasting time in such irreversible facts.SC should look upon upgrading rape verdicts.

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Rosario Fernandes, Kallianpur

Father-in-law rapes his daughter-in-law.
The verdict:
'The daughter-in-law should divorce
her husband and marry the rapist father-in law'.
What $#!% of a law is this.?
Besides, women can't become judges,
two women's witness is equal to one man's witness.
This law is nothing but cow d%$#.
Religious supremacy and helplessness.
Gradually, a day will come when all religions will disappear. Only ONE GOD & NO RELIGION formula will prevail.
And that day will be called,
'Achhe Din'.

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Justin Lobo, Bangalore KSA

Shariyat law Abu Dawud (38:4396) A thief was brought to the Prophet four times and his punishments were amputations of the right hand, the left foot, the left hand and then the right foot On the fifth occasion the Prophet had him killed "We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him."

for robbing one hand cut, next robing another hand cut,for third rob foot cut, for fourth rob another foot cut. Fifth time how can he rob to kill the man. cruel law from cruel man.

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Vishal , Puttur

Religious leaders under the guise of religious freedom keep their
coreligionist under their control with such laws. That should stop.
Large number enjoy freedom today because of our Constitution. Not because the religions which preach morality and such other principles. It is the religions which deprive people their rights. High time to start a new religion which is solely based on human value system!!!

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Vincent Rodrigues, katapadi/Bangalore

Surely Shariyat is the decision of their Muslim community and it applies only to them and not to others.Supreme Court is right in giving this decision.

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Justin Lobo, Bangalore KSA

@Ahmed, Mlore,
Shariyat laws are not divine laws, these are man made laws.

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Harold D'cunha, Mangalore, India

It is a good decision by the Supreme Court of India saying Shariyat courts that dispense justice among Muslim community members have no legal sanctity. This is absolutely true, Shariyat courts have no legal sanctity.

But if both parties the plaintiff and aggrieved of the Muslim community are happy with the Shaiyat courts judgement and are willing to abide by it, even though the Shariyat court judgement has no legal sanctity. Then it should be respected as it is acceptable to both parties.

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Mukesh, Mangalore

Law is equal to all the citizens of India. Hats off supreme court

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Robert George, Mangalore/US

It is a good decision by the Supreme Court at a time when political parties are increasingly pandering to certain communities with the only objective of securing their votes.

Let the law of the land prevail!

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Ramesh S, mangalore

Law of the land must be supreme not the verdict of Kangaroo court..these courts interpret religious books as per their convenience..there is so many contradiction within clerics on several words/sentence..there is also justification from hardline clerics for suicide bombing,killing etc when very religion says its haraam!!.

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AMAR NATHAL, MANGALORE

If any one dissatisfied with Shariyat court verdict that goes against the law of the land, definitely that person should have the fundamental right to appeal in Indian civil court. If not, we will have disaster. We don't need Modi for that.

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TRaghu Pai, Bangalore

Kudos to Supreme Court, next Uniform Civil Code has to be implemented by Modi govt.

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RSRB, Kundapura /Singapore

Hope CM Sidhdhu will not protest against this as it disturbs his appeasement politics...

Anyway, the timing of this judgment is excellent. Otherwise, congress would have brought some law, like they did in Sha Bano case to defeat supreme court.

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haris, dubai

Ella OK. Nimage hesarilla yake?

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Peter, udupi

Mr.Haris

Who will spoil his name while writing stupid comments?.

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tomcat, Mangalore

Shariyat means back to the stone ages.Secondly shariyat can not deal with vehicle related incidents as there none those days other then camel tracks.

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Ahmed, Mlore

The Evolution of vehicles have shown the negative impact on Environment with giving rising Global warming.Air pollution is one of the factors why lot of people die today.Innovation is Good but at What Cost?.Every Innovation has come with a higher Cost,The ill effect of it shall eventually unfold...

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victor, mangalore

what are you using now "camel" or "Vehicle"

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tomcat, Mangalore

Ahmed the point here is shariyat law and its application, in certain fields where it cannot. Not 4th century barbarian mentality which is nothing but blah blah blah.

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Ahmed, Mlore

Tomcat, Where doesnt the Law Hold pls specify.The Divine Laws Dont need any amendments as they need in case of man made laws.Go up to the headlines of this very website and ull find budding lawyer Raped and murdered ,Life sentence to the perpetrator.Does this justify the agony Caused to Family of the victim.After The Delhi Rape case ,the law is looking on definition of juvenile.Arent These Laws are trying and testing at Cost of humans life?? An Eye for Eye is remedy,Why the heck should victim suffer at the Cost of Convict's Pleasure...

All i ask you to study the Shariah law and apply it to the humanity as Whole.

Like you Even i need peace on the land.

You can pass commentary on the sharia law if u have read it.I Reckon read it, and Find Faults...if you get them specify.

Law is curb Crimes not punish the criminals only but now What do you feel the Crimes are really decreasing?

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tomcat, Mangalore/Oman

Ahmed, Mlore Again I say Shariyat laws are unscientific, barbaric does not find out the root cause of malady how can man made laws become divine what was made in 4th century which not applicable to the present unless one goes back to barbaric ages. No doubt the Middle East is embroiled in terrible war due to the reason eye for eye makes the whole world blind.
An eye for an eye is if you do something bad to me, I'll do something bad to you. Basically, it's revenge. It's saying that revenge is just a viscous circle that never stops so how can it be divine.
By the way being in Saudi Arabia for 20 years I have learnt it there and I clearly say its nothing but rule of fear without freedom there is nothing divine there.

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rajesh, mangalore

Mr Ahmed, you mentioned rape. the rape laws from what i learnt about in sharia is barbaric. a female has to produce four male witness to prove rape unless the accused admits the crime. do you think rapes are committed in front of male witnesses. A rape victim who is married may herself get punished for Zina if she cannot prove rape. All these laws are biased against women.inheritance laws, testimonies are some of the examples. you may correct me if i am wrong but please cite Authentic sources.

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Nabeel, udupi/doha

This is, unfortunately, a very common and very serious misconception amongst many Muslims and non muslims The very short answer to the question is: NO. Islam does not require a woman to produce any eye-witnesses to prove that she was raped. Now, let’s look at the verses of the Qur’an which mention the production of four witnesses:

The adulterer and the adulteress — flog each one of them with a hundred stripes…
-(An-Nur 24:3)

And those who calumniate chaste woman but bring not four witnesses — flog them eighty stripes and do not admit their evidence ever after.
-(An-Nur 24:5)

In these verses, it is made clear that four witnesses are required to prove adultery — and not when the husband is being accused of unfaithfulness, but when the wife is being accused. This onus is meant to protect women from the evils of men who would destroy a woman’s reputation and name out of spite. If their accusation is honest, they are required to produce four impeccable witnesses to back up their claims. If they cannot, the accusers are to be punished severely for falsely accusing a woman and attempting to ruin her, and they are never to be trusted to give evidence again. If four witnesses are produced, the woman may still take a solemn oath swearing her own innocence, and if she does so her word is taken above the words of the accusers and she is to be considered blameless. These extensive protections suggest that it would be foolish to believe that Islam would ever require a woman to go through the pain and suffering of providing four witnesses to her rape.

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Ramesh S, mangalore

..timely judgement, people already know what kind of judgement issued by these Kangaroo courts in Pak, afgan,Iraq,African countries & how people suffered and continuous to suffer..INDIA has to wake to the reality..recent IB report says that flow of hardline preachers (of a sect) from ME on rise which is disturbing peace within community in north India particularly..Its also disturbing to here that these courts are functioning in disguise in western countries also..recently law enforcement office caught several in this case..court also clamp on KHAP panchayat, now a days it seems over riding law of land..

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Pioneer, mlore

@ Ramesh S
Ramesh dont go abroad there are plenty of such speakers in India itself...Leave about anywhere also there are many such speakers in mlore itself...One of such sick guy is quite famous here need not mention his name....We cant prevent homegrown hate preachers leave about abroad....

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jeevan, mangalore

Enact uniform civil code and end appeasement politics..

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Shankar Bhat, Nagpur

BJP came to power through this appeasement politics. Will they end it?

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pioneer, mlore

Yep modi govt is silent on it.....

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India First, India

Uniform civil code is very much needed in India !! Law should be same to all Indians irrespective of their religion !!

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Indian, Mangalore

ONE COUNTRY AND ONE LAW....

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Prashanth P, Karla

Dear Brother Indian,

As i observed your comment is not intended to harm any one instead same is a matured one and need of the hour,but for your comment there are many dislikes!!! so it means those opposed your comment don't want to treat them as equal to other's,it indicates they don't want single country with single law for all,then how one can expect peace,progress and mutual respect between all citizen of India??? i think it is only night mare!!!!

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mustafa byari, kalladka

Those who disagree with this are threat for Our country India.

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Prashanth, karla

Brother Mustafa,
Let them disagree,but agreed comments indicate clear and majority opinion that we need one country with one law that is the gratenes of our country.

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